CRN: The remote office / mobile workforce space has been talked about for a long time. Most of the conversations I've had have always been around the enterprise side of things. It seems to have exploded in the last year - suddenly everyone seems to have a smartphone, tablets are popping up. I think it's really exciting and a big opportunity for resellers who might not even realise there is an opportunity there.
How are businesses making the transition to mobile workforces?
Leon Friend, Avnet: We see a lot of SMBs asking for help combining different vendors and different technologies, because we are seeing a lot of smartphones and tablets starting to appear in design requests.
Often people have bought products that don't do what they want because they've not thought about all [the parts required].
For example, the other day a customer bought a couple of firewall routers that they wanted to put up in a high availability configuration and then realised they had only one internet link and no ability to actually do what they wanted. It's a bit of a mess really...
CRN: Are there any common areas that people overlook?
Friend: I think it's really they just need to step back and look at what they're actually trying to achieve. Usually it starts off as organic growth - give this guy access via his smartphone and it might work for one or two people, but as soon as you hit three it becomes unmanageable and a complete mess. So if we sit down and look at that then you can sort of cover it off...
CRN: When you say complete mess, what are the problems that emerge?
Friend: Management, controlling who has access, protecting your network. Sometimes it's about data loss, things copied down onto your home computer. We have some situations where we talk about data loss prevention and the data security suites that allow us to protect the end-point and control what is copied to memory sticks...
CRN: SMBs just want the flexibility but don't want to have to start paying for it
Friend: Yes, they don't actually think about it...
Scott Penno, Allied Telesis: It's one thing to say gee, it's going to cost me a lot to get someone like NSC involved to put all this together, but there's probably a much greater price paid for a loss of information, either because you can't get your hands on it or that might have been the only copy.
Friend: SMBs seem to focus more on the anti-virus side of it, viruses getting in their network and not realising that a lot of the time what is higher cost. If they get a virus in their network they can clean it up relatively easily, but if they lose the data it's gone.
Scott McKinnel, Check Point: There a number of factors in the SMB space - the lack of an IT professional, the size and cost-sensitive nature. They're influenced not by a singular CXO who is giving steerage to the strategy but moreso around barbecues and people that they know.
[Their decisions are made] without good strategy, without good skills and knowledge about how to formulate security best practices and so on and subsequently, as you say, it's a hell of a mess because there's a lack of control and no consistent management.
The frustration I find is convincing people they need stuff without them thinking you're just trying to flog them another product.
They're reluctant sometimes to take that up because they don't see me as an influence, they see me as a sales person trying to sell them something. So they take their influence from their neighbour or their friend who is not trying to sell them anything but typically is giving them outdated advice.
I've got a neighbour down the street who works from home in a little marketing business. He's got a bit of anti-virus on that machine, he's got a different one on this one - one day he'll get an idea from someone and go and change something or change his phone to something else.
They don't really understand the threat and it is a challenge I think to try and give good advice.
Rob Pregnell, Symantec: The technology is there and the services are there. SMBs by nature I think are pretty self-sufficient, they've been doing things themselves because that's the way it goes in that space...
Penno: Maybe that's the difference - Scott sees a need for that external assistance and is struggling to find an organisation to help him out. A lot of SMBs try to take on as much as they can themselves because they don't want to engage someone externally to do that for them...
Pregnell: Yes, they're reluctant to and are afraid of the perception of the high cost.
The other thing that hasn't yet been mentioned is the often very dramatic impact of a breach. An SMB with a virus threat for instance will literally take themselves off for half a day or a day or two while they fix it, whereas the larger organisations can isolate the threat and essentially keep the ship running.
When it does happen there's actually dramatically more impact to that business than it would be if it was a larger organisation.
Next: CRN: Part of the problem is that because they're small businesses only their customers are affected other than themselves, so there's much less opportunity for breaches to be reported.
CRN: Part of the problem is that because they're small businesses only their customers are affected other than themselves, so there's much less opportunity for breaches to be reported.
McKinnel: It's almost the blind leading the blind. Small-medium business owners, dealer principals, are concerned about working capital, industrial relations - front of mind is about business tools and availability. The concept of dedicating mindshare to having their IT shop squeaky clean just doesn't enter their psyche.
They look towards their trusted advisors and the small-to-medium reseller community. And they probably do a great job of running up servers, doing AV, building laptops and things, but when it comes to the more sophisticated disciplines, whether security or CRM optimisation, the skills are just not there. There's a skills shortage in the enterprise market. I can tell you, trying to find skilled practitioners in security is very, very difficult.
CRN: Are others seeing that as well - finding it hard to find people?
Scott Hayman, Distribution Central: I think it's all about education. I don't think the SMB resellers have enough time on their hands. A lot of them are very busy and don't necessarily have enough time to actually put their staff through the training to educate themselves.
They just seem to be at the moment out there in the market flogging as much stuff as they can just to stay afloat but actually falling back on the certification side of things and not keeping themselves certified enough.
We have various resellers out there which are deploying solutions every day of the week but not necessarily understanding the technology. So we have a bit of a push at the moment in regards to certification around that channel and getting these guys up to speed on the technology they're actually selling every day of the week.
CRN: What aren't they understanding?
Hayman: I think in the SMB reseller community there's a general misconception around VoIP. One of the things we specialise in is VOIP in Distribution Central in the unisystems division. A lot of resellers are selling and installing the stuff but when there's a fault or an issue over security or a firewall is not allowing VOIP to pass through it they just throw their hands up.
VOIP is a so-called mainstream term now, but if you ask these SMB guys how much they actually know about HV3 or putting SIP through a firewall or proxies, they don't have a clue about it.
There is certainly a lack of investment in the knowledge in the channel because I just don't think they have the time to invest in their certifications. We run week-long courses and three-day courses and they're just finding it hard to even get their guys on these courses because they're flat out.
CRN: What are the consequences of not having that knowledge?
Hayman: The consequences, and I see this every day of the week, is that they lose face with the customers really quickly. So the sales guy has done his job and sold a VoIP solution and it gets to the point of installation and there's maybe a firewall that's blocking it or something in the way. It's causing problems and immediately they're throwing their hands up in the air because they don't have the actual skills because they haven't invested in the technology that they're actually selling. So that's an area I feel is very weak at the moment is the actual education in the channel, especially around the VOIP area...
Pregnell: We are also working very hard to get a lot of resellers, both small and large, certified and trained up. We're finding it difficult as well. We've pegged it back from day-long courses now to just come along for two hours, do whatever you can to keep them knowledgeable and trained up.
A little bit of knowledge is dangerous for the SMB - they're reluctant sometimes to hand over to the experts. It's like this is what we do, let me do it, you want VoIP we'll do it for you.
I see my friend struggling with it all the time. there's nothing wrong with the systems themselves but in some cases he doesn't have control of the network and they're still going through their mate that set up the internet set up five years ago, and don't have a good pipe any more and he can't fix that...
Friend: Where the problem comes in is where the reseller doesn't necessarily have the skills in-house to be able to support a network so you get this barrier between the VOIP guys installing the phone system and the network guys, because there's never anything wrong with the network, right?...
Pregnell: I've had that, absolutely.
Penno: You ought to work for a networking vendor, mate. It's always the network. (laughter)
McKinnel: You should try selling firewalls, it's the lowest common denominator.
Friend: The same reseller, because they don't have the ability and haven't been doing the training, they often don't even have the ability to articulate what the problem is to the firewall guy or the networking guy. So they end up spending five or six times the amount of time they should solving the issue.
Pregnell: As more stuff moves into the cloud, sometimes two or three providers will be forced to talk to each other to solve a problem and they're not always cooperative - just by nature they might be competitors or they might be in slightly different spaces. So this is where I think solutions for small business are important, to try and have more control over the solution by having ownership of more of its moving parts.
And that is a behaviour that is contrary to the incumbent mindset of the SMB. It's a thing that we all struggle with, because again it sounds like we're trying to sell them more, and I guess you are at the end of the day, but it's not just for that purpose that we're trying to do this.
Next: CRN: It is easy to understand viruses, but the loss of time and efficiencies with poor management, it must be hard to communicate that too?
CRN: It seems like there's a general problem of trying to demonstrate the value of a coordinated approach so you can move away from an ad hoc style and the problems that go with it.
It must be difficult Alan, on the management side of things. It is easy to understand viruses, but the loss of time and efficiencies with poor management, it must be hard to communicate that too?
Alan Abraham, Landesk: One of the things we're seeing is organisations moving from a technical cost centre, the remote office branch office to more of a strategic approach.
Something as simple as a few months ago, one of the largest hardware vendors had a battery recall on six of their mobile devices. So you've got 40 branch offices across a number of countries, how do you know who has what, whether it's hardware inventory or software inventory or multi-layered.
How do I do end-point security, how do I do patching, how do I install software across these devices without affecting other things like the network bandwidth
So one of the things we talk to organisations about, whether they're enterprise or SMB, we say to have a look at whether the technology is relevant, also is it mainstream?
McKinnel: I think there's a lot more reliance on technology, it's a lot more pervasive and available, but there still seems to be a fixation on the acquisition cost and the ongoing support cost without understanding the life-cycle management cost.
You don't get something for free. So as you become more reliant on IT and deploy more mobility there's a cost associated with it. I think people think it's free and that's where the issue is. It's a case of the costs are now transferred from hard tangible costs, assets and software and so forth, but they're now more soft costs - productivity costs and things like that.
I don't think there's a maturity within small organisations to actually truly appreciate it, quantify it and then try and address that as an issue.
I deal with large procurement entities, banks and telcos, and if you want to see people driven by cost, they are - but they still have a very strong appreciation of the soft costs, brand reputation and things like that, whereas I don't think that mindset, and quite rightly so, in those disciplines are there with an SMB.
Penno: The cost is one side, the return is the other - what return am I getting from deploying these applications on mobile devices or providing remote access or connectivity.
The large organisations probably have a much better idea about [measuring investment and the return on that investment]. Whereas the SMB see the cost but may not necessarily see the return, or have an idea about what the return is but not have any means to measure it.
CRN: Yes, I think that goes to the heart of the problem - SMBs aren't really good at measuring things, whether its costs or return on investment.
Friend: And often they don't see the cost in that ongoing management either, so they look at the initial upfront costs and the returns but they're missing the bit about the ongoing management cost and that's where going with the entire solution can make a big difference. They spend five hours setting up a new laptop when it should only take half an hour.
Penno: Yes, and then spend ten hours a month managing that laptop over time.
Friend: And then they end up hiring an extra person to do it when really, if they'd set it up properly, they could do a lot more.
CRN: Enterprise technologies such as virtual desktops could solve a lot of these problems, at least in theory. SMBs seem reluctant to do such major transformation, the virtual aspect seems to scare away the horses. Where are things at with things like virtual desktops - there should be a big demand for it but are we seeing it, is it happening?
Safi Obeidullah, Citrix: Yes, certainly over the last few years desktop virtualisation has become a lot more popular, particular with the release of Windows 7.
As you said, the requirement from a desktop is a lot different from what it was 10 years ago, it's not just a PC with a mouse and a keyboard, the users demand a lot richer user experience, they want to be able to work from home from different types of devices, access their apps from an iPad for example, things like that.
Next: CRN: Scott, from Allied's point of view, how do virtual desktops affect SMB networks?
CRN: Scott, from Allied's point of view, how do virtual desktops affect SMB networks?
Penno: The requirements of the network change when you move from fat clients to thinner clients. With a fat client the thing that matters is trying to move a large amount of data so the bandwidth is a challenge - the more bandwidth the quicker I can download the information.
When you're working with a virtual desktop environment or a voice environment or anything that is a multimedia-type application it's not necessarily about the bandwidth anymore because screen updates are trivial, it's about the latency. So when the user moves a mouse or speaks on the phone that almost happens instantaneously, rather than treating it like a satellite phonecall where you're sitting there waiting.CRN: Is latency a big issue? Is better bandwidth to another hidden issue SMBs don't want to pay for?
Penno: Yes, I think there are a couple of different areas that people need to look at. Latency comes in all sorts of different areas of a network. It may come within the local area network because of inadequate networking products or firewalls, but more often than not it's outside the local area network.
A classic example, when you're working with a number of remote offices is remote office A will be with service provider A, remote office B will be with service provider B, and when you look at it the traffic travels halfway across the world to get to two offices in Melbourne and Sydney. There's a large amount of latency incurred transiting between here and the US.
Hayman: I couldn't agree more with that. We get lots of issues come in on our support desks from SMBs moving staff overseas to call centres in Manila and other places. They set up remote workers out there with virtual desktops and soft phones and the backhaul links are causing problems.
SMBs have tight budgets, they're saving money on staff costs but they use a dodgy internet connection and expect to do everything over it. They're saving money by putting the staff overseas but not necessarily subscribing to an MPLS-backed point to point link with an international carrier.
They might have a nice connection in Sydney but once it hits the internet all bets are off unless it's a managed network end to end.
Penno: Scott, you made the point before that the SMB is concerned about the business tools and liquidity and all that, but they need to treat information technology as another business tool that's fundamental to what they're doing, not as a bolt-on. It needs to be at the heart at what they do. Because if they invest in it correctly and take a strategic approach to it, it will deliver them the results they're looking for out of their traditional business tools.
CRN: It sounds like there's a big need for IT resellers to be teaching business skills to their customers, because we're talking about having strategies for investing in IT or managing your information and it doesn't crop up in SMB contexts as much as it does in enterprise. I think there's an opportunity here for resellers, if they can actually consult on the business and show them how to plan things and be that strategic advisor, not just the IT advisor.
Penno: The other challenge is to get them to see the value in advising them about the strategic approach because all they're going to see is oh, you want to charge me what?
Abraham: I think that's where you have to change the perception. Perception is reality and people get what they pay for. This is where the reseller really has to step up to the mark and say okay, if I want to be a trusted advisor here I have to start behaving like one.
So at the end of the day you have to step back and say look, I totally understand your challenges but these are the key areas we specialise in that we can help you with, however it might cost you this much.
The real test comes down to whether you have a strong relationship. People will pay KPMG, Accenture, people like that, $2500-4000 a day, whatever it is, or $400,000 for a report - why aren't they paying you? Because you are a technology organisation, you're an organisation that not only just does one piece of work but can look after a whole myriad of vendors.
You are the one neck to choke, you are the single point of accountability and that's where the reseller really has to step up to the mark and say I'm going to change the way things are being done with this customer.
Obeidullah: With the advent of cloud computing and all that, it's interesting to see what's happening overseas. In the UK there are companies and service providers popping up that provide a bundled complete solution for SMB which includes, say, 10 virtual desktops, 10 mailboxes, 10,000 voice minutes, mobile handsets, everything, all for like a 1000 pounds a month and that's it.
Really taking all that complexity, worrying about who's managing what, who to call for desktop and exchange - it's all a single throat to choke and it's simple.
CRN: We're seeing Telstra doing some of that. They've started using Log Me In software now to set up people's modems for them - the SMB is the logical next step. Do you see that as a threat to the established IT reseller channel with telcos moving more into that space?
Obeidullah: I think the telcos moving in is one thing but I don't think telcos will really understand the needs of SMBs. Telcos are good at understanding enterprise needs and the complexities there. SMB have, to some degree, unique requirements in some ways and require a different level of service, so I think there's a much bigger opportunity for resellers to pull in the different components and actually offer it as a service.
McKinnel: This concept of vendor agnostic has to go because there is so much consolidation, there's so much complexity, you have to pick No.1 and No.2 in the market that you think is not going to be acquired or be significant to another organisation and build skills in it and add value because you need to - the same as a lot of the vendors here, it's a sophisticated product set. Even if you're addressing a basic requirement for a small business you still need to have some skills in it to be proficient in it.
David Treacy, NSC: Yes - because customers want this and this and this. You're like, we don't have a lot of the skills in that. In the last five years the distributors are becoming an aggregation point for a lot of resellers and the skills are starting to pop up in the distributor [to address the skills shortage].
Abraham: I think that will build a lot of credibility because you're not saying you're the be-all and end-all for everyone - this is what we stand for, however I have a friend over here in another organisation that can really add a lot of value to this.
CRN: Maybe there's a campaign that could be run. Resellers could say to their customers would you trust the guy at the barbecue to run your business? Well why are you trusting him to run your IT?
Pregnell: Would you get him to draft your employment contracts?
McKinnel: It's the same analogy, it's a critical part of the business. You wouldn't not go to a lawyer for a piece of IR or employment dispute, you wouldn't go she'll be right, I'll go down to the local conveyancing guy or local family lawyer to deal with an IR issue.
Penno: That's because the implications if I don't go and visit a lawyer are fairly significant, I can actually see what the implications of not doing the right thing there are. But in terms of technology what happens if I don't consult with the right people - my business is still going to run, my PCs are still going to be on the desk. The benefits or the risk is not well understood, or as tangible.
Abraham: Safi raised a really good point and you asked a very good question, which was what's going to happen when all these vendors, all these telcos come out with this solution in a box.
All you have to look at is the consolidation of vendors and the consolidation of resellers over the last 10 years. The ones that were very self-centred and didn't behave in a selfless sort of way are gone. So this is a great opportunity for resellers right now to embrace this stuff and say we didn't know about this six months ago but it's here right now, or it's going to come.
Talk about roadmapping, get close to your vendor, understand what technology is coming out, tell them 12 months in advance instead of just worrying about the tactical sale today - you'll probably get the tactical sale anyway...
Friend: Back to David's point, as a valued distributor one of our key roles is to maintain that team of technical expertise that not all the resellers can maintain themselves so that we can assist with that solution design and that delivery of product and services, because the portfolio is very large. There's a lot of things out there and we have the technical skills to help the resellers because not all of them, at this point at least, are up to speed to do it themselves.
CRN: Just to get back to trends - enterprise have been talking about video and UC for a long time, and now tablets are here. I want to get a realistic idea of whether you think we really are going to see video coming on strong in SMB in 2011. Is it a year too early still?
Penno: What do you see as the application for video? We're doing a massive amount of video.
CRN: Enterprise or SMB?
Penno: Actually across the board, but not in the application you're thinking about - we're actually doing it in CCTV. CCTV is probably a little left of centre for most people here but we do a lot of work with the traditional security channel - access control, CCTV, building management systems - all of these platforms that were stand-alone traditional systems using traditional infrastructure have all moved to IP over the last 3-4 years. So today we have a network in Melbourne with 4000 video streams on it 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
CRN: What about from a remote office/mobile workforce perspective or UC side of things? Is that also going
to happen?
CRN: What about from a remote office/mobile workforce perspective or UC side of things? Is that also going
to happen?
Hayman: We're already starting to see, for the last year now, video based soft phones, the soft phone with a video component which will do a point-to-point video between two people. We're also seeing the evolution of Polycom desktop handsets, the VX series, video door phones coming to SMB - press a button on the front door and immediately every computer that's running this software, it will pop and we will see the guy standing at the front door.
A lot of SMBs are investing in a single video conference unit for their office because everyone else is doing it; it's a natural progression now for them to talk to another company via VC.
I think it's a long way off, maybe on every phonecall I don't necessarily want to see your face on the phone every time, but there's certainly a benefit to be able to have remote workers or office workers hooking into a central video conference for an SMB.
I think seeing people point-to-point all the time is not going to happen. I think the benefits are video-conferencing, door stations.
Friend: I think SMBs just don't have that business driver, they're too busy playing catch-up in other areas. Video is a nice to have but it's not a driver...
Hayman: I think the interest is definitely there. The amount of RFIs and documents that come across my desk that I'm specing up all have a video component in them now. You talk to vendors who have been selling video conference units at the moment, in the last two years their numbers have gone tenfold because people are cutting back on travel and using VC instead.
CRN: One more questions to wrap it up - it seems like skills is a real bottleneck. What do you think are the best kind of skills a reseller might need for 2011?
Treacy: I see that as the mirage in the desert - everyone's trying to get there. You think you're there, you're fully skilled up, I'm across all the things you need to, and then it's just gone again.
McKinnel: If you have a look at the small to medium integrators or resellers there's a lot of very junior or typically orientated people and not a lot of commercially savvy people - I'm not talking consultants but people with project skills or just general well-rounded experience.
Friend: You're right - what the resellers need to do when they're looking at their skills, there's a vested need to get skills in a particular area and a lot focus too hard on that when they need to build that more solution-rounded skill set. Then they know how to sit down and have that constructive discussion with their customer to propose a solution and look at it as a whole.
Abraham: That's the thing - it depends what you're chasing. Are we chasing one revolving around self-actualisation with an employee, getting them to be all they can be, understanding business and business acumen and having commercial discussions, or are we chasing a me-too approach. Some of these courses people send their staff on you can just do over the web and it really shows up.
Penno: I think there's a trade-off to be had, particularly at a technical level, in the depth of knowledge. Do I want someone who is very, very good and has a strong knowledge base in this one niche area or do I want someone who has a breadth of knowledge and maybe not the depth and how do I balance that with people with business acumen as well.
Pregnell: A lot of those partners themselves are SMBs and tend to have blinkers on with regard to their own skill sets - we do this and this, we've established this relationship with XYZ vendor and it's worked well for us so we're not going to change it.
For 2011 the successful resellers will be those who take the blinkers off and take a step back and certify and train yourself up, but importantly be prepared to form more collaborative relationships with more vendors. As opposed to yourself, just like the customer you're talking to, continuing to make incremental ad hoc sort of decisions year to year as to which vendor you're going to partner with, which product you're going to push and so on.
Basically increase the depth and breadth of the relationships you have with the vendors because then you can bring a broader, more strategic, overall more effective solution down to the customer.
Treacy: You need people with experience I guess. Instead of just chasing certs, you get people who are supposed to be experts in something, they've just done a week of training and they have no idea. Sometimes someone with experience in the industry, has been around, they would do a better job of having that technology deployed in your organisation than someone with a week's worth of training.
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